The Provisional House

[OT: It’s definitely been one of those days weeks months where you realize just how far you’ve got left to go.]

[OT: It’s definitely been one of those days weeks months where you realize just how far you’ve got left to go.]


aelfgyve:

voryn-dagoth:

wake-forest:

voryn-dagoth:

if “womer” is a “gendered term for one of many genders” then please show me terms from this construction that would apply to these “many other genders”, that would apply to nb characters

there isnt. just as man/woman doesn’t leave any space for them

Yeah, I see that side too. Do gender neutral ‘mer’ and ‘womer’ as a word for ‘non-human woman’ have to be mutually exclusive, though?

why though……… thats kinda like bringing back the “man/woman” thing where “man” is male but is also supposed to be gender neutral sometimes….. i dont really understand what you’re saying :o

if we have “mer” which refers to race and is like “human” and its gender neutral, then why womer? thats kinda like wohuman or she-human

i don’t understand 0_0 can you explain?

The problems I personally have with ‘womer’ (other than the fact that it sounds really silly) are that:

  1. Since humans and elves can reproduce and have fertile children, that essentially makes them different races of the same species. So ‘mer’ is referring to an ethnic supergroup (by which I mean a catch-all for a variety of different races who are descended from a single people and share a single ancestral culture).

    Since ‘mer’ is used by elves as a gender-neutral term, forcing a gender onto it sort of makes ‘womer’ a bit like saying ‘Jewess’. I mean, you’re not going to personally insult any elves if you use it, but that’s still… regressive.


  2. Linguistically it doesn’t make sense. Taking ‘mer’ as an analogue to ‘man’ doesn’t directly translate to man/woman —> mer/womer, not least because historically ‘man’ was a gender-neutral term. The Old English words for ‘man’ and ‘woman’ are wereman and wifman: man-human and wife-human.

    The fact that we just have ‘man’ and ‘woman’ now is pretty much bad linguistic practice in and of itself; according to this logic, men are just ‘human’, and women are ‘wife-humans’. They’re ‘person’ and ‘gendered person’, or ‘Default’ and ‘Other’. Anyone with a grain of common sense would tell you that they’re just two different, equally normal genders.
    But so goes it, language moves on, fortunately women are not automatically men’s wives these days (in most places, and praise be!) and ‘man’ is no longer a gender-neutral term. That doesn’t mean you have to apply its faulty logic to fantasy races.


  3. Since the ‘wo’ bit of ‘woman’ comes from ‘wif’, or wife, it’s based in a culture where heterosexuality is the accepted norm. However, Tamrielic races have never had the same ideas about sexuality. They don’t see queerness as abnormal, just uncommon. A Default needs an Other in order to define itself, or there’s no such thing as a default in the first place. If queerness isn’t the bad, abnormal Other, then straightness cannot be the good, normal Default.

    Secondly, women of any race have never been inferior. I’d say that gender issues in Tamriel are more about prizing masculinity than seeing men as superior, which is confusing from a sociohistorical point but, I mean, it’s fantasy and I’m sure I could find some excuse if I thought hard enough. Almalexia was High Alma back in the First Era, Alessia founded the first Cyrod Empire and nobody handed control over to Morihaus, Ayrenn is Queen of Alinor, female player characters are not barred from anything male player characters can do, etc. Really their only problem is all these mysterious deaths by crushed sternum.

    So essentially it doesn’t make etymologic sense to call a mer a ‘wife-mer’ in a culture or cultures where women’s roles are not reduced to wives and male property, and where heterosexuality is not expected and enforced.

This is everything I was going to reply with, so instead I’ll just reblog it. 

To snap back to our own discussion earlier

I agree, but as you pointed out, ‘Mer’ is repeatedly set opposite ‘Man’ in the collective.

That’s because “man and mer” sounds nice. You could just as easily write it as “humans and elves” but it doesn’t have the same ring. 

I’m not trying to argue that it is definitely gender specific, I’m just saying that there’s enough hints around that I don’t want to generalize what may be a cypher for a patriarchal term.

Do you speak a second language? As I pointed out earlier, other languages don’t have the problem of a gendered default noun. I would imagine that part of voryn-dagoth’s problem with you trying to put genders on Mer is that his native Polish, like my Russian, has a gender-neutral collective noun which works wonderfully. As do many other languages. There is absolutely no need to have mer have any patriarchal connotations, outside of the desire to map it to English, which does.

Because it’s a word for ‘non-human woman’ that doesn’t require definition at every turn. It’s literally just a convenient elf version of ‘woman’ so I don’t have to use a human term for them or constantly explain what I mean.

Again, why is this necessary? Think of Mer as a nationality. Do you constantly need a way to say “American woman” besides just saying “American woman”? Or as a race: do we need a separate word for “black woman”? 

Also, as aelfgyve pointed out, by creating a term for “elf woman” you are making the default “elf” necessarily male.You’re assigning the patriarchal male = normal female = other dichotomy, not the language itself. If you want to keep “mer” as gender neutral but still use “womer,” you need to also invent and start using a male prefix for mer. 

 I do not see how it can be any more dehumanizing (in the way you meant) than ‘woman.’

Woman is the accepted term for the gender, and stands apart from man despite using it in its construction. I, personally, have no problem with the “man” part of it - those who do are more than welcome to use the already established womyn. She-noun, on the other hand, is something we reserve for animals. It isn’t its own word, it’s putting a prefix and a little dash in front of the male term, saying literally (not just by virtue of linguistic history) “this other thing that isn’t like the normal thing”. 


wake-forest:

ladynerevar:

wake-forest:

[snip]

[snip]

Life in the Eagle’s Shadow, Why don the Veil?, and Racial Motifs 11: Ancient Elves all use ‘mer’ individually, so there are examples of it being used other than as a collective term. So yeah, it does have the same usage as ‘man.’

All uses of it referring to a specific individual are towards guys, but yes, there’s hardly enough to say that the individual use is gender specific. But again, the fact that it’s used both individually and collectively in the same way as ‘man’ goes back into what I was saying in the first post.

All those individual translations could just as easily be written “Elf” instead of “mer”. Again: just because the collective noun for “people” or “human” is the same as the noun for males in English, doesn’t mean it is in Elven, or other languages. Russian, for example, has chelovek or ludi (plural) as the general collective noun, and the completely unrelated muschina and dzenshina for “man” and “woman”. I’m not a native speaker of Spanish or German, but if I remember correctly they follow the same kind of pattern. English seems to be the odd man out with it’s basing everything on the male noun. 

Obviously the elvish word(s) for ‘woman’ would not actually be ‘womer’ - this is, like all other dialogue from Tamriel, a partial English translation. Chosen to easily communicate both gender identity and racial distinction. 

But…why? There is no other time you would use this construction in the English language. If you want to speak of someone from America in a language without noun genders, like English, you say “he is American” or “she is American.” You don’t say “he is American” and “she is she-American.” As far as I am aware, Aldmeri dialects do not have noun genders, so they would function like English and use a gender neutral race descriptor. Races with noun genders, like Russian, get around all of this by having completely separate words/suffixes/prefixes for male/female versions of a race. To use the previous example: on Amerikanetz, ona Amerikanka. Or, more simply, Americano and Americana in Spanish

The only time you use “she-[noun]” in English is when you are describing animals that do not have separate words for male and female genders. She-bear and she-wolf for example. Excuse me if I find what translates to “she-person” far more dehumanizing than simply using Mer for all genders. 


I did Valley of Blades, took screenshots of all the cool Yoku moments, only to realize that Fraps hadn’t been turned on. 
Here’s a Sai Sahan sketch.  View Larger

I did Valley of Blades, took screenshots of all the cool Yoku moments, only to realize that Fraps hadn’t been turned on. 

Here’s a Sai Sahan sketch. 


wake-forest:

It kind of pisses me off when people whine about the term ‘womer.’ It’s not about enforcing a gender binary, it’s about having an elf-specific word for one of many genders. ‘Cause, sorry/not-sorry to all the writers who have used it, but elves with that identity would not call themselves ‘women.’

At first glance I like the idea of ‘mer’ being gender neutral, but then it smacks of how ‘man’ has been used to refer to all of humanity historically - ostensibly gender neutral in that sense, but lol no it isn’t. Using ‘mer’ to refer to all of elf-kind is just a fantasy cypher of that misogynistic usage, and it’s even worse when it’s generalized to mean ‘any elf person’ rather than ‘elf-kind,’  because then the cypher has become more whitewashing than the RL usage.

"Mer" just means "elf" and is a distinction of race, not of gender. In other words, the equivalent of "human." Or, even more accurately, "person," but that doesn’t work in a universe with non-human people. When used individually, Mer is always either to contrast with humans (“men and mer”) or to refer to a whole elvish people (“of all the Prismatic Mer, none were more presumptuous than the Ayleids”). Just because the English “man” as a word to encompass all peoples isn’t egalitarian doesn’t mean that the word Mer has to be, too. 

Elves absolutely would have words for “man,” “woman,” and probably a dozen other genders. There is no suggestion that those words would utilize their word for their race in any way, much less be a portmanteau with English. 

What you’re advocating is the equivalent of me calling myself a WoSlav.


I was going through my ESO screenshots folder and found…what ever this is. 
Oh Darien, you silly bastard. I guess you had to live up to all your “I love them womens” talk some time.  View Larger

I was going through my ESO screenshots folder and found…what ever this is. 

Oh Darien, you silly bastard. I guess you had to live up to all your “I love them womens” talk some time. 


heady9jd reblogged your photo
Please tell me this is a real mod and not just a fanfic or anything. I WANT TO PLAY THIS PLEASE

It’s a silly idea for a mod I had a few weeks ago. Definitely considering* doing it for whenever FO4 comes out, though. Cause it’d just be fun. 

*Depending on, among other things, ease of importing new meshes, complexity of pipeline for clothing/armor, ability to create new races. 


Guy was an obvious troll account made solely to do this, you’re falling right for it.

I don’t particularly care about the guy - I’ve reported his stuff to dA and that’s all I can really do. 

What I do care about is that Sixthhouse sourced the art to him (rather than reblogging the original post where the art appeared), and now a hundred people on Tumblr got the wrong idea. 

If the alternative of “not falling for it” is letting misinformation spread, then I’ll gladly fall for it. 


Hey, if you’re viewing my profile because you just received a form-letter ask, sorry again for the bother! I just take art theft very seriously, especially when it involves my friends. Who worked very hard on the piece for a long time. And who I paid with my own money. 

So yeah. Please don’t give publicity to a dude who takes credit for and belittles the work of other artists. 

Thanks!


sixthhouse:

Morrowindby TheLichArtist

Hey Sixthhouse - 
This is NOT TheLichArtist’s work. I’ve already reported it to DeviantArt, but I would really appreciate it if you did not spread stolen artwork all over Tumblr. 
This piece is the cover to C0DA, commissioned and paid for by myself from Ksenia Mamaeva (SnowSkadi on deviantart). You can find the original piece, with the real artist, here. 

sixthhouse:

Morrowindby TheLichArtist

Hey Sixthhouse - 

This is NOT TheLichArtist’s work. I’ve already reported it to DeviantArt, but I would really appreciate it if you did not spread stolen artwork all over Tumblr. 

This piece is the cover to C0DA, commissioned and paid for by myself from Ksenia Mamaeva (SnowSkadi on deviantart). You can find the original piece, with the real artist, here